gogollescent: (ur hair tho)
[personal profile] gogollescent posting in [community profile] vorkosigan
Given the chance, how would you sort the Vorkosigan characters into Hogwarts houses?

Don't look at me like that. This is clearly key information that I am gathering. Is Cordelia the world's most ruthless Hufflepuff, or would she at eleven be hustled off to Ravenclaw, only later in life to develop interpersonal convictions? Does Miles con the hat into putting him into Gryffindor despite the fact that if cut him open you would find a great big S drawn in green on his heart? For that matter, where would Aral have wanted to be put when he was eleven, a pretty formative year for him by any yardstick? Are Illyan and his chip in different houses entirely-- no, don't answer that one--

And so on

This inquiry definitely not made for gruesome fusion research purposes of any kind, of course.

Date: 2012-11-04 09:59 pm (UTC)
philomytha: girl in woods with a shaft of sunlight falling on her (Default)
From: [personal profile] philomytha
Ooh, this is tricky! Ivan, for instance, I was going to say, is blatantly a Hufflepuff, but then, the instinctive rescue-kittens-from-trees-without-considering-the-consequences is pure Gryffindor.

I'm tempted to say that Miles Vorkosigan is a Gryffindor and Admiral Naismith a Slytherin... and where will that leave Mark?

Duv, surely, is pure Ravenclaw.

Date: 2012-11-04 10:07 pm (UTC)
azurelunatic: A glittery black pin badge with a blue holographic star in the middle. (Default)
From: [personal profile] azurelunatic
Mark is Slytherin in business dealings, but has enough FOR VORKOSIGAN AND BARRAYAR! HONOR! drilled into him that he jumps Hufflepuff (home, hearth, hard work) if the chips are down.

Date: 2012-11-04 10:25 pm (UTC)
philomytha: girl in woods with a shaft of sunlight falling on her (Default)
From: [personal profile] philomytha
I think Aral has to be a Gryffindor, in the end. He WANTS to be honourable and straightforward all the time, and it just sucks for him that his life isn't going to let that be an option; that's why he keeps trying to drink himself to death. Piotr, though, was a very natural Slytherin (unless he's another ruthless Hufflepuff: twenty years of guerrilla warfare suggests an impressive capacity for hard work and persistence in the face of overwhelming odds).

Illyan is a Muggle, tasked with looking after and herding all these mad wizards.

Date: 2012-11-04 10:43 pm (UTC)
philomytha: girl in woods with a shaft of sunlight falling on her (Default)
From: [personal profile] philomytha
As if life wasn't hard enough for Illyan! Though this might explain ImpSec HQ being quite so granitely forbidding: it's to keep the magic out so that they can run their computers in peace.

But oh yes, of course magical ability is particularly widespread among the purebloods Vor. And there are lots of Issues with who's in control, the magic-wielding Vor or the proles with computers and nerve disruptors...

This is also making me think that maybe Ivan is a Squib ;-).

Gregor has to be a Ravenclaw. 'Let's see what happens' is a very Ravenclaw sort of motto.

Date: 2012-11-05 11:30 am (UTC)
hedda62: my cat asleep (Default)
From: [personal profile] hedda62
Though I suspect he's the first Ravenclaw to pop up in the Vorbarra line for a long time

I agree with the placement of Gregor; I'm not so sure about the rest of the Vorbarras. Ezar strikes me as quite possibly Gryffindor or Hufflepuff by nature, with a lot of Slytherin tutoring. But I tend to sort Slytherins based on the self-serving goals of their manipulativeness and ambition rather than on the fact of those qualities. I think Ezar sincerely meant to serve the Empire rather than himself (which is, admittedly, an easy thing to say when you're Emperor).

I'd actually rather love to see Serg as a twisted Hufflepuff, too. You know, dedicating himself in a hard-working fashion to depravity. But Slytherin's probably a more accurate choice for him.

I rather suspect Dorca was Slytherin to the bone. Yuri, maybe a Squib! Xav, likely Gryffindor.

Date: 2012-11-05 03:58 pm (UTC)
hedda62: my cat asleep (Default)
From: [personal profile] hedda62
There is that "forge ahead and damn the consequences For The Good of Barrayar" aspect to Ezar's horrible war plot that screams Gryffindor to me, but yes, the self-interest part is Slytherin, and whether he cared about Serg's legacy or not, he certainly wasn't self-sacrificing.

And I caught myself thinking that Serg wasn't smart enough to be a Slytherin, but of course that's not really a requirement. However, Gregor certainly didn't get his rational intelligence from that side of the family. (I think Kareen is one of the smarter Gryffindors, or a Slytherin/Gryffindor amalgam, cunning in her self-sacrifice.)

Date: 2012-11-04 10:06 pm (UTC)
azurelunatic: A glittery black pin badge with a blue holographic star in the middle. (Default)
From: [personal profile] azurelunatic
Cordelia might have fancied herself a Ravenclaw until she needed to learn to manage scientists, at which point she embraced her inner Slytherin.

Date: 2012-11-04 11:24 pm (UTC)
nineveh_uk: Illustration that looks like Harriet Vane (Harriet)
From: [personal profile] nineveh_uk
though I'm not sure ambition is what's required to command Betan intellectuals

If they are anything like present-day Earth academics, positively Machiavellian levels of cunning, ambition, and ruthlessness.

Date: 2012-11-04 10:52 pm (UTC)
melannen: Commander Valentine of Alpha Squad Seven, a red-haired female Nick Fury in space, smoking contemplatively (Default)
From: [personal profile] melannen
I would say Cordelia is definitely a Slytherin - she's ruthless, she knows what she wants and does what she needs to get it, and doesn't spend a lot of time worrying about it afterward.

I've always put Aral down as Hufflepuff, though; one gets the impression that he would have been perfectly happy just living a quiet life of hard but useful work with the people he loves around him, if it weren't that he's always getting forced into doing great things.

Alys is Ravenclaw, obviously. She even usually wears Ravenclaw colors. (Illyan probably is too.) Ivan and his father were both Gryffindors, though.

Lord Miles Vorkosigan is Slytherin; Admiral Naismith is probably Ravenclaw, actually; but Miles being Miles is fairly Gryffindor.

I can't figure out Gregor, though. Maybe Ravenclaw? It would be interesting to put Gregor in a situation, growing up, where who-he-was-inside was more important than being the Emperor. (On the other hand, the vast majority of Vorbarras have always been Slytherin, so I suspect he would have been put in Slytherin regardless of what the Sorting Hat said, because that's the Imperial house; Cordelia's control over his education can only go so far.)

Date: 2012-11-04 11:43 pm (UTC)
melannen: Commander Valentine of Alpha Squad Seven, a red-haired female Nick Fury in space, smoking contemplatively (Default)
From: [personal profile] melannen
I'm not sure Gregor would ever get to *wear* the Hat, is the thing - too much of a political risk, there. (I guess it would depend on how exactly one made the fusion work.)

Date: 2012-11-05 12:41 am (UTC)
melannen: Commander Valentine of Alpha Squad Seven, a red-haired female Nick Fury in space, smoking contemplatively (Default)
From: [personal profile] melannen
Oh, well, if we're adding in the other schools *g*

...Barrayar needs more fur capes. IIRC, there's only one in canon, and that one's Elli's.

Date: 2012-11-04 11:58 pm (UTC)
rymenhild: Manuscript page from British Library MS Harley 913 (Default)
From: [personal profile] rymenhild
Oh, no, Alys is Gryffindor to the bone. It's just that her bravery and heroism are usually displayed in the women's spheres, so the men don't necessarily notice.

Date: 2012-11-05 12:33 am (UTC)
melannen: Commander Valentine of Alpha Squad Seven, a red-haired female Nick Fury in space, smoking contemplatively (Default)
From: [personal profile] melannen
Hmm, I don't know. I think I would buy an interpretation of Alys as Gryffindor (certainly in a lot of fic where we get to see more of her, she's portrayed that way) and it's not that she's not brave (or manipulative, or hardworking) but her specific canon talents are all about knowing things - she knows fashion, she knows protocol, she knows social history and tradition and law, she knows aesthetics, she knows everyone who's relevant to Barrayaran power and all of their interconnecting relationships, she knows exactly how far she can push things and she knows how to build effective strategies for quiet long-term change - and she's happy doing all those things while being underestimated in the background in a blue-and-silver dress! The things she knows are women's sphere things, too, but it takes just as much intelligence and learning to know them and apply them.

(ETA: Ekaterin, on the other hand, is Gryffindor to the bone. She's all bravery.)
Edited Date: 2012-11-05 12:36 am (UTC)

Date: 2012-11-04 11:04 pm (UTC)
raven: Karen Gillan as Amy Pond, wearing green and red and looking up (Default)
From: [personal profile] raven
I would put Cordelia, Alys, Miles and Admiral Naismith all firmly in Slytherin! Aral as Gryffindor, yes, and Illyan.... hmm. He's got me baffled. I am sort of tempted to say his real self is a Ravenclaw, but he's acted very Slytherin all his working life.

Date: 2012-11-04 11:43 pm (UTC)
lannamichaels: Astronaut Dale Gardner holds up For Sale sign after EVA. (Default)
From: [personal profile] lannamichaels
Everyone's a Slytherin. No, really.

Date: 2012-11-04 11:59 pm (UTC)
lannamichaels: Astronaut Dale Gardner holds up For Sale sign after EVA. (Default)
From: [personal profile] lannamichaels
That's what happens when you make your series all about the well-meaning aristocrats who high-handedly set about to induce widespread change.

Yeah, and their surrounding characters, like Illyan. Slytherin basically equals any kind of complexity, whether it be of morals or of motives or of anything. Slytherin is only equal to "evil" in the sense that not being a mythological hero or a bookworm who does not exist outside of books ("beware the quiet ones" indicates a level of cunning/sneakiness/underhandedness/playing-nice-so-you-can-get-away-with-stuff, which means Slytherin) or a self-less, again, mythological character, means that you're evil by process of elimination.

Slytherin as written in the books really should be the biggest House ever, since it's everyone who is cunning or driven (aka "ambitious") or sneaky or, um, anything. If you're an interesting character, you're probably a Slytherin, because otherwise, you're not particularly interesting.

(Is it very obvious I love Snape/Harry? ;) )
Edited Date: 2012-11-05 12:01 am (UTC)

Date: 2012-11-05 08:16 am (UTC)
legionseagle: (Default)
From: [personal profile] legionseagle
I agree. Except for Simon Illyan, who I think of as a Hufflepuff (who but a Hufflepuff would have volunteered for that chip in the first place?) and Ekaterin, who's a Gryffindor.

Date: 2012-11-05 11:43 am (UTC)
lannamichaels: Astronaut Dale Gardner holds up For Sale sign after EVA. (Default)
From: [personal profile] lannamichaels
Simon's a spy then spymaster; hence Slytherin. ;)

Date: 2012-11-05 11:45 am (UTC)
legionseagle: (Default)
From: [personal profile] legionseagle
Slytherin's ambition, Hufflepuff's duty. I submit that Simon, while successful, is successful without being personally ambitious (and he gets the job by being in the right (wrong?) place at the right time).

Date: 2012-11-05 01:30 pm (UTC)
intermezzo: (Default)
From: [personal profile] intermezzo
Awesome post! I still need to think about this, but...JSYK, I'd SO read that fic! :)))))

Date: 2012-11-05 02:31 pm (UTC)
reginagiraffe: Stick figure of me with long wavy hair and giraffe on shirt. (Default)
From: [personal profile] reginagiraffe
I'm no expert so I'd love to hear peoples' thoughts on Mark. Especially Mark vs. Killer/Gorge/Grunt/Howl. (Sort all *those* if you dare. :D)

Date: 2012-11-05 04:32 pm (UTC)
crisis_control: ... It feels like it will never end. Cardio. (Gen - Mark the spot)
From: [personal profile] crisis_control
My first instinct pegs Aral as Gryffindor (although I buy the argument about him being a Puff, his early self strikes me as a bit too violent and idealistic (and violently idealistic...)), Miles as rule-breaker type Gryffindor (Miles is probably a bit -- a lot -- like Harry; the Hat probably stalled between Gryffindor and Slyth, and Miles would sweet talk it into sorting him into Gryffindor, because, you know, Vorthalia the Bold. Plus, his lack of ambition for Gregor's camp stool). Illyan as a Ravenclaw (inclining towards a Slytherclaw, really)- he can be sneaky, he can be hardworking, but he sure loves his data. (I can actually see him volunteering for the chip, because of the sheer shiny attraction of something that could possibly make him smarter.)

Cordelia I'd place as a Hat-stall. She reminds me of McGonagall, and ultimately I'd slide her into Gryffindor (with her views on the Vor, she's probably not enough of a pureblood fanatic to be Slytherin although she certainly has many characteristics of one), though it's a very close shave with Ravenclaw.

Mark I'd peg as a Slytherin. He's certainly sharp enough, he doesn't share that brand of heroism that Miles does (though he has his own). Strangely enough, I can also see him as a Hufflepuff.

Ivan - is really hard for me. He screams Hufflepuff to me, except for the laziness...

Having said that, I think what this very fascinating discussion shows is that - people really can be placed in all kinds of different Houses, depending on what you define as their defining characteristic and the the House's defining characteristic :) It must be a pain, being the Sorting Hat...

Date: 2012-11-05 05:35 pm (UTC)
crisis_control: ... It feels like it will never end. Cardio. (Default)
From: [personal profile] crisis_control
*laugh* Beauxbetans in all its punnish glory is fantastic. She probably looks upon all the Sorting as archaic and a little crazy, and probably lobbies for the entire system to be abolished...

Miles, possibly the first person to ask the Hat what its elephant is.

Re Illyan - hm, I think what calls out to me is that his very dispassionate observer status and the ability to hold multiple realities in his head strikes me as very much a Claw trait. Baby!Illyan in Shards isn't a Slytherin either, and too fade-into-the-background to be Gryff or Puff...
Edited Date: 2012-11-05 05:35 pm (UTC)

Date: 2012-11-06 01:45 pm (UTC)
hedda62: my cat asleep (Default)
From: [personal profile] hedda62
Well, to get back to your original question, what if Simon is a Ravenclaw and the chip is a Hufflepuff? Or the other way around? (I do suffer greatly from anthropomorphic tendencies, if you couldn't tell.)

Miles and the Hat would be a great name for a band. (somehow I think Ivan would be outvoted in the naming process)

Not sure I want to know what happens if the hat and the chip get together.

Date: 2012-11-06 06:53 pm (UTC)
hedda62: my cat asleep (Default)
From: [personal profile] hedda62
culminating in his live cover of Memory.

*dies* *just dies*

Date: 2012-11-06 07:17 am (UTC)
kiezh: Tree and birds reflected in water (Default)
From: [personal profile] kiezh
Late to the party...

I don't really understand sorting Cordelia anywhere but Ravenclaw. Think about her backstory - high-achieving misfit geek, manipulated out of her first chance at captaincy by her ex (which does not argue for ambition or ability to scheme on her part), "let's see what happens." She didn't come equipped with those formidable social and political skills, she built them based on her observations throughout her life, which is very Ravenclaw. Her first instinct in any situation isn't to act, it's to analyze. Then she'll act, decisively, if she decides it's best. But she'll always think first. (And during. And after.)

Gregor is also a Ravenclaw, and is more like Cordelia than Miles is, in some ways. The books mention several times how Gregor uses Cordelia's phrases, analyzes her in turn, and has the same kind of unsettlingly thoughtful gaze.

Miles is such a Gryffindor. What he wants most to give everyone in the universe is rescue. Seriously.

Aral... I like the idea above that Aral is a Gryffindor who has been forced to act against his instincts his whole life long, which is the cause of a lot of his pain and self-destructive habits. And Piotr, who is definitely a Slytherin, doesn't understand why his son can't shape up and show some cunning and ambition.

I don't get why a lot of people in fandom want to make everyone they like a Slytherin; that kind of defeats the whole idea of sorting. (Which is not that great an idea to begin with, in HP canon.) Many interesting characters are not particularly ambitious, or are cunning in the service of other priorities!

I don't think many of the main characters in the Vorkosigan saga are Slytherins. Piotr, yes. Ezar, I can see. Mark, definitely yes. (Of the family-protecting Mine Or Not Mine type, who care very intensely about a small list of people.) Maybe Elli's a Slytherin, actually. (Elena's a Gryffindor, and I think her father may have been one too, albeit terribly damaged.) I could buy Lady Alys... she did, after all, marry the best catch of her generation, which is what an ambitious young lady in her position might want. (Padma was the son of a princess, wealthy, handsome, kind, etc. Aral and Serg were higher ranked but, for different reasons, not good prospects.) And then she ended up as the Imperial Hostess and the queen of high society for decades. Not to mention a spy. Yes, I'd say Alys is Slytherin.

I think there are a ton of brave Ravenclaws and thoughtful Gryffindors floating around, partly because Bujold is at her best when she's writing ethical intellectuals. I'm not sure who's a Hufflepuff. Kou and Drou? Ooh, Kareen the younger, definitely. And that's why she balances Mark. Ivan I can't place. I want to say Hufflepuff for loyalty, but hard work? Nah. Maybe Gryffindor. (Which puts Alys in the same position as Piotr, a ruthlessly ambitious parent who doesn't understand why their child doesn't want what they want.)

Okay, stopping there. It is a really interesting exercise, even if I think the Sorting in the HP universe was incredibly toxic. It makes you think about what people's core characteristics are.


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