Barrayar readthrough

[flourish]

Okay, readthrough #2: Barrayar! Sorry that this one's a day late - I just got back from vacation last night and was too pooped to post. ;) Some thoughts to kick us off:

• In my readthrough of this novel, I was surprised to see how much the "gun principle" applied. You know - "if you see a gun in the first act of the play, it will certainly be fired by the third act"? Only it applied to everything, not just nerve disruptors. For instance: Drou's disappointment when Cordelia wants to go shopping (and her parallel thrill when they go to Siegling's) is echoed in Cordelia bringing Vordarian's head back in a shopping bag. Even Cordelia remarking on how Drou looks awful in the "superior servant" dresses is echoed by Alys Vorpatril dressing her beautfiully for her wedding. Maybe this is part of what it is to write a really tight story?
• I was kind of uncomfortable with Koudelka's ideas about what he was "doing to" Drou. I think that given Barrayaran society, it's perfectly... understandable? That's not the right word, but you know what I mean. But because we don't really deeply delve into Barrayaran society until books later in the timeline (they were, I think, previously published, though) it is jarring. I'm now kind of itching for fanfic.
• Speaking of itching for fanfic, Barrayar brought up all this great stuff about the Time of Isolation and the Cetagandan war that I'd really, really love to see handled.

On those topics, would people be interested in doing some kind of a fest? I'd be into running one, if people were into writing for one, but I'm nervous that there are too few Vorkosigan fanfic writers around to make it very big at all. Worth it anyway, do you all think?

Comments

Illyan

[elf]

Reading this, I was struck by Illyan's presence, always in the background, but with hints of what he'll grow into.

He takes over as chief of security as the Vordarian Pretendership kicks off, and his first *real* job is clearing out spies and traitors. He had to be combing his memory for shreds of connection to Vordarian, or other shreds of dislike of Aral, and checking those memories against recent activities and public statements. Even with that, he must've been on the edge of panic every time Gregor was in a crowd of more than six people, and doubly panicked every time Aral and Gregor were in the same room, wondering if some idiot with plans to seize the throne had found a way past his security measures.

By the time Miles was a cadet, he must've spoiled a hundred badly-planned assassination attempts. I have the feeling a good portion of his tolerance for Miles was that Illyan was incredibly tired of stupid troublemakers; a brilliant one was so refreshing he didn't want to stop him.

(I like the idea of a fest. I don't know if I'd participate; it would depend on timing. I do have an Aral/Bothari story I'm itching to write, but it's being bumped by more pressing commitments.)

[twistedchick]

It has been a while (since I borrowed the book, not having my own copy) but I remember being struck by how firmly it is told from Cordelia's viewpoint. Given this, it seems to me that what we find is her being appalled at the way Koudelka thinks about sex, and his and Drou's general ignorance of it. Barrayaran society is provincial and backward in distressing ways to someone who is Betan; it makes me think that part of her composure in later books is her steeling herself to deal with this kind of backwardness nearly every day.

Re: Illyan

[philomytha.livejournal.com]

Ah, a fellow Illyan-lover! I noticed him in the background much more in Shards rather than Barrayar, actually. He must have had a pretty hard job there, ordered to steer Aral through the Escobar invasion and bring him out intact, but with no idea what it is Aral is actually doing (though I'd bet Betan dollars to sand he figures it out, since he has the same data Cordelia does). In Shards he's very much a pale shadow of what is to come, rather young and innocent by comparison with the later Illyan, though he does somehow (and why?) stand up to Aral when Aral wants to rescue Elena Visconti.

I like the idea that he enjoys Miles being a brilliant troublemaker, though from his point of view the advantage of stupid troublemakers is that he can outwit them before they actually make their trouble. This does not apply to Miles. But Miles makes trouble for the Cetagandans, mostly, so I guess Illyan will forgive him a lot for that.

He clearly has some interesting off-screen adventures in Barrayar, first in investigating Vordarian's plot, then in escaping Vorbarr Sultana, then doing his cleanup of ImpSec when he suddenly finds himself in charge. Might make some good fics...

There's been a fest on the bujold_fic comm each summer for the past few years, and I've written for that each year. I'd be happy to have a shot at writing for one here too, since I love having excuses to finish Bujold fics, but it might be a good idea to coordinate with the bujold_fic mod so that they don't overlap.

[feuervogel]

Possibly also her doing her damnedest to get rid of some of the backwardness. Can't you see Cordelia having young Vor women or their mothers over for tea and tactfully suggesting they teach their children about sex? I can't imagine it not being awkward as hell, but... I mean, it's kind of consistent with the textual evidence that Cordelia & Alys advocated for replicator use over body birth (at least among Vor women; this comes up in ACC I think.)

(I definitely think Miles and Gregor and Elena and Ivan were subject to The Talk. Though Miles did spend some teenaged time on Beta, hmm, maybe he got The Talk before he left.)

Re: Illyan

[cjk1701]

though he does somehow (and why?) stand up to Aral when Aral wants to rescue Elena Visconti

Well, at that point he was very much the Emperor's man, following Aral to keep him in line (and possibly also out of trouble), so a random Escobaran complication was probably the last thing he needed.

[cjk1701]

There was a lovely fanfic somewhere, with Cordelia giving Gregor The Talk in loco parentis.

*pets the Gate in your icon*

[flourish]

Yeah, that's very true. This is also the book in which we first begin to see Cordelia's wit emerge. She has some great, great one-liners (not to mention dumping the head out).

I do agree with you on the "steeling herself to deal with this kind of backwardness" bit.

Re: Illyan

[flourish]

Thanks for pointing out the bujoldfic fest! I haven't participated in it, so it completely slipped my mind. That's a good point. Maybe we could do a "Winterfair gifts" fest at some point? But then, that conflicts with Yuletide, which I think Vorkosiverse is still small enough to qualify for. Unless we decide that for us "Winterfair" means "October," ha.

WRT Illyan: YES, Miles being brilliant and therefore getting away with it!

[flourish]

Honestly, I can hardly imagine what trying to give a young Miles the Talk would have been like. What a nightmare! I'm so glad that my kids are highly unlikely to turn out like him. If Cordelia ever needed proof that childbearing and -rearing is as difficult and important as war (which seems to be one of her major theses in Barrayar, Miles has got to be it.

Re: Illyan

[philomytha.livejournal.com]

Isn't Gregor's birthday supposed to be in the autumn? There could be an Emperor's Birthday Fest...

Re: Illyan

[flourish]

Oh, I love that idea! It is in the autumn; we just noted that in Barrayar, actually.

In the meantime, as I do my research and contact the bujold-fic moderator and so on, I think a drabble thread is in order...

[feuervogel]

I remember reading that & it was awesome. I'm pretty sure it was on LJ... maybe the author is reading the thread and can link it!

Aww. Berlin is just awesome.

[philomytha.livejournal.com]

I think there may be more than one, but this has Cordelia and Gregor having the Talk: http://lightgetsin.livejournal.com/286300.html

[feuervogel]

Oh, that's the one! The first section always gets to me. He looked at her, unblinking and rabbit still for a dozen long beats of that awful, waiting silence. Then he licked his lips and whispered, "mine too." *sniffle*

[cjk1701]

Yes, that's the one I was talking about. I still can't decide if I'm more in love with Gregor or with Ivan. *sigh*

[cjk1701]

I'm trying to picture it... Miles is really quite a bit Old Vor, whether he likes it or not, so I suppose he would be torn between being horrifyingly embarrassed and being a total smart-arse, possibly to cover the embarrassment. That is, if Cordelia ever managed to get him to sit still long enough to listen.

Elena, now -- I think Cordelia had a great deal of influence on her, consciously or unconsciously counteracting Bothari's painfully conservative ways, and everything Elena grew up to be is in some ways a reflection on Cordelia and how she shaped the new generation.

[feuervogel]

Ivan! XD

(Cordelia's slides! Oh, how I can see that, all Betan facts and figures.)

[cjk1701]

Yes, but thanks to the ADS-verse I also ship Miles/Gregor almost more than the canon ships. *sighs* But Ivan is love, yes.

Re: Illyan

[raven]

Heh, I thought just this! I love Memory for this reason - how they're recognisably the same character, at different times in a long life. It's really good characterisation.

[flourish]

That is very true, about Miles and Old Vor. You see it in his relationships, and in how tied to Barrayar he is. He might be socially liberal but he can't truly embrace galactic life because he's got his roots firmly twined around Barrayaran soil. Actually, Miles has a lot in common with native Barrayaran wildlife, now that I think of it.

I do agree about Elena, though obviously Cordelia didn't ever get to sit her down and give her the sex talk, at least not to the extent that I imagine she would've Miles (remember how Elena reacts to her first moments on Beta!)

[azurelunatic]

I'm sure that Miles pretty much grew up knowing the facts of life. Knowing Cordelia, she probably had him sat down with some very practical age-appropriate Betan vidbooks as soon as he expressed curiosity about How Boys And Girls Are Different. So I'm sure he knew all about what. (And I'm sure that Gregor got something slightly older, hastily, when Cordelia realized that this aspect of Gregor's education would have been neglected due to BARRAYARANS.)

So I doubt that the teenaged-Talk was basic anatomy and so forth; it was probably a "and remember the reproductive system? Welcome to yours. These are the pitfalls of having one on Barrayar."