Confidants

[james]

I was thinking about Cordelia and Alys (as you do) and I realised that because of circumstance (social standing, security clearance), Cordelia and Alys are each other's most appropriate confidant. But I don't know that I think they are actually suited for oen another in personality and such.

Like, when Cordelia arrives on Barrayar, Alys would be the best person to ask questions of (what did he mean by that, so and so did this thing what does it mean). But they also have huge differences, not just the culture they grew up in. Cordelia is married, Alys is a widow. Cordelia is raising a disabled son, Alys' son is healthy. While I don't know they would out-right resent one another, I don't know if either would feel completely comfortable venting and bitching about things that the other could reasonably resent.

I suppose each woman is mature enough to give it a try - if the other called up and said 'omg this thing is driving me nuts' she would listen and make agreeable noises.

But would they be good friends? Would they truly enjoy one another's company and seek it out for any purpose, not just 'society rules dictate I must hang out with you and not someone else.'

Not that either one would feel required to follow social rules. But with all the family secrets and security, and the ease of just finding someone to connect with - it'd be easiest to turn to one another. Of course the books don't really show either woman having friends, or a life outside their children and husband.

Which means what I really want is for someone to write a story or two. ;-)

Comments

[beatrice_otter]

The thing is, one of the most crucial components of who becomes a close friend is not "how much are our personalities compatible" but "how much time do we spend together." Even when you have very little in common with someone, if you spend a lot of time together over the course of years, unless you actively dislike them, you will become close to them and really care about them. Even if they're someone you would never have chosen for a friend in the first place.

[james]

That's a good point. I guess I was thinking about it more from the beginning of their knowing one another and not the end, when the books take place.

[philomytha]

Well, I have a friend who's a widow and I'm not, and I have a disabled son and she doesn't, and we come from different countries... I'm not sure those are the things that determine whether or not people are compatible. Mutual experience of trauma, even if totally different kinds of trauma, can be a common bond, though on Barrayar being a widow is sadly not unusual. Being the mother of a perceived mutie is definitely not something Cordelia will have in common with anyone. I bet even parents of sick children have a hard time and have to keep it to themselves.

The huge contrast they have is their attitude towards Barrayaran social rules and etiquette, though there is an underlying hidden commonality formed by Alys's experience giving birth to Ivan - it gets mentioned iirc in ACC that men who won't countenance replicators can't find Babas to work for them and Cordelia loves this but I bet it's Alys who's behind it - but Alys by and large enforces social etiquette, while Cordelia violates it at whim.

We get shown that Cordelia is quite critical of Alys's parenting of Ivan, at least in speaking to third parties, but at the same time, she has empathy for them both. We never really see what Alys thinks of Cordelia's parenting...

But shared experiences are probably the strongest foundation to build a friendship on, especially shared danger and teamwork, and Alys and Cordelia have that in spades, first from everything during Vordarian's Pretendership and then to whatever extent they worked together navigating the Regency.

[james]

This is all just making me want fic about it even more. :-)

[philomytha]

Alys, Cordelia, and a clash of parenting styles... :-)

[legionseagle]

They go through a war situation together. That's much more likely to end in them bonding than any of their perceived differences.

[james]

I think I'm trying mostly to imagine their relationship in the beginning - when they have some good reasons to have bonded, but they don't really know one another yet and there are also a bunch of differences, like the first few times Alys brings Ivan over to see his cousin and the ladies are sitting and trying to figure out what to talk about that isn't work/politics related.

Like at what point does one of them feel comfortable enough to complain to the other about something like 'it's so hard for me to do X and I hate it but I have to do it anyway.'

I feel like I want to see several fics exploring this in all different ways. :-D

[legionseagle]

The war happens before -- and indeed during -- Ivan's birth.

[james]

Yes? I'm not sure what your point is.

[legionseagle]

Well, when you're talking about their relationship "in the beginning" that's when Cordelia is using Alys as her local guide to Barrayaran high society, and they're both pregnant (the pregnancies progressing normally) and married with living husbands. That's the point when it's valid to consider whether they would have stayed each other's closest confidants if there hadn't been the Vordarian pretendership. But if no Vordarian pretendership, Padma lives.

But because of Vordarian, Padma dies and the two women are flung together in the closest of possible circumstances -- Cordelia and her team rescue Alys and Ivan when Padma has failed to do so. So the "what might have been" if they had grown apart after the initial coincidence of circumstance that threw them together has disspated never happens, because the bond of shared danger, comrades in arms and so forth brings them so close together any differences are largely superficial.

[james]

But we don't actually see their relationship right after Padme has been killed, so we can't say what absolutely happens. We can say this is likely, but it's also possible that something else happens. There is no canon saying "Alys calls Cordelia every morning after breakfast to chat" nor is there canon saying "the ladies never spoke beyond necessity for nine years."

So we don't really know and I'm curious about all the possible ways it could have gone.

[desertvixen]

I think they both recognize each other's talents and skills and appreciate them in general.

As for after Padma's death/end of the war, I'm thinking of the scene where it's discussions about Drou's wedding attire that brings Alys out of her funk, and Cordelia's realization that Alys needs people/things to organize.

I would argue that they certainly stay in touch - thinking about Memory here.

This is more about Laisa and Cordelia meeting, but it sums up how I see their relationahip: https://archiveofourown.org/works/19469692

[james]

I think the fact Ivan and Miles grow up knowing one another and playing together says they kept in touch. I think it'd be interesting to see a version where they politely tolerate one another because they have no other options, and a version where they become close friends, and so on. But I like the nod to Cordelia noticing that about Alys - it means she is paying attention to Alys and knows her well enough to realise that.

I do like the idea of them being good friends, but fanfic means I can consider all the possibilities. ;-)

And thanks for the story pointer, that was really nice!